joining us, brenda butner. so every single holiday we see employment goes up because people get short term jobs. is this the same thing all over again or potentially could holiday hiring season is a sign that confidence may be bouncing back. >> we'll take any positive at this point. 2008 was the low for retail sales and for retailers. last year they went up 30%. it looks like by some estimates, they think it could be even a stronger year. we've seen year over year retailers have increased hiring by 65%. it could be, you know, it can be a strong year. the thing is you have to be cautious. it looks like retailers will wait until the last minute to hire people. it could be well into ma december. you make a very good point. these are temporary workers and depends on demand. people are saving more. they are unemployed. it really have to wait until the season is almost over until we have a real sense of what kind of hiring was done. >> julie: they are waiting for the last minute to hire when i imagine the whole point